Wow - thx for sharing Ben....yeah, I don't have a lot of experience using hardware comps and eq's - mainly cause they're expensive haha, but I hear ya - I tend to prefer a lot of old recordings over modern sounding stuff if it's overly produced/compressed, etc....just seems to be more interesting character and dynamics to my ears. Ghost and The Roots sound great, but I wouldn't have guessed they were unmastered....everything sounds so full - certainly not overly compressed or produced - great dynamics! Same applies to The Bastards EP I suppose? Man, that's even more impressive cause your mixes sound great to me. Any tips? Do you just spend a lot of time getting the source/level exactly right going in?
Bringing this thread back from the dead. I'm just getting into home recording and was wondering what interface you use and also how you mic your drums when you are using a standard set?
For interface, it depends on the record. The first Electric President record was done with a M-Audio Mobile Pre. Then I used a Mackie Onyx 410 for a really long time. But I recently sold that and got a used RME Fireface UC for a good deal. None of the recordings I've made with the new one have been released yet, though. As for drums, depends on the project. A lot of the Radical Face drums are recorded in pieces, just using floor toms and shakers and sticks and such.For a full kit, I typically record drums in mono. I've never really been into hearing every drum individually. So I often use a single LDC, and I put it behind me (drummer's perspective), about two feet above my head. I aim it in between the snare and kick, trying to get the attack of both. I then move the cymbals as far away as I can and still play properly, and do tests until I can hear everything pretty well. Then I just spend some time making sure I can compress them well and not lose too much. Once I have all that set, I add in mics if things are getting lost. It's pretty common to put a mic outside the kick (usually about 4 feet away, 2 feet off the ground). Sometimes I need a mic for the snare or floor tom, but not often. And if I am in a room that sounds cool, I'll throw up a room mic in omni and get what I can from that. But a lot of the drum sounds these days are just a mono overhead, pretty heavily compressed, and a kick mic.
In a similar vein, I'm in the process of putting together a new recording space. Me and my brother moved out of our apartment and put a down payment on a house a couple months ago, exactly four blocks from where our apartment was. I'm converting the garage into a recording space, and I will finally be able to do drums on my own. Up until now, I've always had to travel to friend's houses to track kits. I'll also be running the AC into the garage, so Summer won't be completely awful for tracking. I sometimes find it funny that at least half of every record was made with me, sitting in my underwear, sweating profusely and hating Florida. It'll probably be a while before it's totally functioning, but I'm fine taking my time with it. Gotta make sure it's sound proofed enough that I don't get the cops called on me constantly.
Does that mean no more recording in the tool shed/laundry room? That's one of the cool little facts I've always said when describing Radical Face.
Cool, thanks for all the information. Depending on who you talk to about it you would think that you need at least 8 mics for a kit and I was curious on how you micd yours because I've always thought your tracks sound really solid. That sounds like my life any time between march and october.
No, I'll still record there too. The piano is staying there. I'll just be recording there at night, and in my garage during the day. I guess I subscribe to the opposite. If I can get a good sound out of 1 mic, then I stop there. I only add more gear if it isn't getting the job done.
I'm actually not sure. I'll have to ask my piano tuner next time I talk with him. He's the one who found it for me.
So, im getting my starter setup to start recording, a interface, a ldc and a sm57. any rookie mistakes I should try to avoid or any tips you guys wish you heard when you were starting. I've been reading articles and watching tutorials but I wanted to hear about peoples personal experiences.
Well, make sure your interface supports switchable phantom power for starters or that ldc will be a paperweight. Of course, the MUCH better option, which I wish I learned right from the start, is don't waste your time on interfaces with built in preamps. Invest in external preamps and an interface with line inputs. It's a night and day difference. It's hard to explain just how important a good preamp is, but it's almost as important as the quality of the mic. Some audio interfaces have such crappy built in preamps that you have to crank them to their max to get a good level out of an sm57. Budget is a limiting factor there though, so an all-in-one interface may be your only option for now... I'd also say don't cheap out on acoustic treatment. It really can make all the difference. Unless you want that recorded in a shed sound, which can be cool, but you may not always want that. Oh, and the most life changing revelation about the actual recording process... Just because your meters go to 0db doesn't mean your levels should ever be anywhere near there. Every track you record should really be no louder than -12ish on average, -6 on peaks at the absolute most. You don't need to make every track as loud as possible. In fact, you'll screw yourself in mixing if you do that. When I record vocals I often have them PEAK around -12db going into the daw. When you're mixing your song, try to keep the master level floating around the -6 range on the loudest parts. You can always bring up the final level after the mix is done.
Yeah, if you can afford standalone pres, they're totally worth it. More so than nice mics, I'd argue, but some folks disagree on that. But it is also something you can add later. I always built my studio a piece at a time. Still do. To add to the tips Minor provided: Mics are your ears when recording. It doesn't matter if it sounds good in the room. If it doesn't sound good coming back out of your speakers or headphones, fix it. And sometimes this means changing how you play, or where you play, or what you're playing on. There are plenty of times, for example, that I have to change the way I'm playing guitar just so it'll record better. And that usually means playing a bit softer than I normally would, mostly because of sharp transients and wanting to avoid them. Don't close mic everything. A lot of people tend to get right up on all their sources in the beginning, always with the mic 3 to 6 inches away from the source. If you start layering, this is going to be a problem when you sit down to mix. Proximity effect can be used to your advantage, but it can cause a lot of problems too (google an explanation of that). I typically mic everything 1 to 2 feet away and only pull in closer when I want something to be particularly up front. And I do plenty with the mic 3 to 6 feet out as well. As you start recording, learn to listen to any new layer relative to what you've already recorded. Say you can have a drum sound you like, and some guitars that go well with it. When adding a bass, don't worry so much how the bass sounds solo. Listen to it in relation to the drums and guitar already there. I have plenty of sounds in songs that, on their own, are nothing special, or even sound shitty. But it doesn't matter unless you're going to hear them on their own. It's all about how the sounds play with each other. Mixing is difficult. It's something you will always be learning about. There's a very technical side to it, but it's also very subjective. Mix how you think sounds good, then fix the problems (too much bass, and it's freaking out speakers ... etc), and just accept that it's an ongoing process. Home recording is different from studio recording. You are working in spaces you have with the equipment you've got, and it's never ideal. You are not going to sound like Tool at your house, if that's your aim. But where you will never exactly sound the most professional or polished, you can make up for it by being interesting, and you have all the time in the world to make things. I personally let go of the idea of perfection a long time ago, and just focus on mood, interest, and whether or not I think it's effective. Instead of trying to remove all the problems that come with home recording, I just accept and use them as part of the process.
Cool, thanks for all the advice guys. The interface I am getting has two built in pres (with phantom power) and two line in and is expandable via light pipe/adat as well so ill have room to grow. Its going to be awhile before I get seperate pres because ive heard you really get what you pay for for the most part and I've tapped my spendable funds for a bit, so ill use the built in ones on the focusrite to start and feel my way around the process along with finally figuring out how my songs will sound with full instrumentation. Unfortunately I do not have enough room in my current room to set up for recording and try to acoustically treat it. I may try around different rooms in my parents house to see if there is a room more suitable there when i want to lay down stuff, they do have a large closet on the second story that is carpeted and filled with clothes on both sides that at the very least be a pretty quiet room. Ill have to work around whats available to me until i graduate and get a job in my field and ditch retail once and for all. My goal is for good enough not perfect. its mainly so I can make my music my way with out haveing to go through friends with gear or pay for studio time. Any suggestions on pres I should be saving for and looking for deals on?
That's opening a can of worms! There's a wide range of choices for pre's. It really depends on what you'll be recording, what kind of sound you're aiming for, and what mics you'll be using. Pre's come in plenty of flavours, but there's some fairly common ones that have stood the test of time. There's the Neve style preamp which gives a big, warm, thick sound. It's the type most commonly used for vocals. Probably the most used vocal recording chain in history is a Neumann u47 through a Neve 1073. Not going to be able to afford either of those, but there are great Neve-ish clones out there. The best one on a budget is the Golden Age Project Pre-73. From there there's the Avedis MA5 if you get an API Lunchbox, and the Vintech X73, among plenty of others. My personal fav is the AML ez1073-500. Then there's the API style preamp. Also useable on vocals (and just about anything), but most popular on electric guitars. Where the Neve sound is warm and beefy, the API sound is more aggressive in the midrange. Kind of edgy and somewhat in your face. On the budget side of things, there's the Warm Audio WA12, or again if you have a lunchbox the API 512c. I built my own API style pre. A company called ClassicAPI sells parts kits if you're handy with a soldering iron. Then there are the 'wire with gain' pres. Basically they have no sound of their own. Super clean, won't colour the sound, just have lots of gain for really low output mics like ribbon mics.You'll frequently find these pres used for recording orchestras. Budget option would be the Grace M101. Higher end would be anything from Millennia, or Buzz Audio. There are also other options of course like tube pre's, SSL console pre's, and holy grails like the Telefunken V72 and whatnot, but I wouldn't worry about those so much when you're starting out.
Yeah, good pres can really cost. And depending on what you're recording, and what style of sounds your going for, there are lots of choices. A pre I like a lot, for how versatile it is, is the Great River. You can really get it to work with damn near anything, and it's an awesome bass DI. I've also gotten a lot mileage out of my Sytek. Found it for $500 (4 channels) used, and though it's not very colored or flashy, it's just really good clean gain. And since a lot of my instruments are always in various states of disrepair, and I tend to stack lots and lots of tracks, I often prefer something fast and without too much color. But there are tons of pres out there, depending on your budget and set up and goals. For now, I'd say get familiar with your two mics and work on placement and basic mixing techniques. Learn to use effects well, get a good handle on compressors, etc. Then add gear as you go, based on which area of your set up feels the weakest to you. That being said, good pres will make your recording life a lot easier.
Oh yeah, I completely forgot about the GR ME1NV! Ben is right, it's an excellent Neve-ish style pre! It really is a workhorse.
Thanks for the recommendations guys, I really appreciate it. Ill keep an eye out for good pres but it'll be awhile before my disposable income is at the point to upgrade my pres but by the time im there hopefully ill have a shadow of an idea of what the hell I am doing. one more question; compressors, are software ones as shitty as some people say and I've heard the "real nice compressor" is a great bargain for a hardware one, any thoughts there? thats it im done bothering y'all I swear.
It's one of those "If I could only have one preamp" kind of pres for me. It really gets just about anything done right. I'm really happy with the lunchbox route I went last year. I now have 2 APIs, a great river and an ma5. And I kept the Sytek. This next record will be my first time really using it all. It's gonna be fun.
You just found an even bigger can of worms! Actually the short answer would be that software is getting pretty close these days. Hell, UAD just recreated the Shadow Hills Mastering Compressor. That's pretty damn impressive. There are some great plugins, but a lot of the best ones aren't cheap. I really like the Vertigo VSC-2, Waves API 2500 and Kramer PIE these days, but my mood changes. The Sonnox Oxford Dynamics is pretty useful too. There are some cheaper plugins that sound really good though, like Cytomic's The Glue, PSP OldTimer and Sknote GTS-39. However, I lovvvvve using hardware compressors. It's an expensive addiction though. I'm up to 3 so far and I have 2 more on my workbench. If I were saving up to buy my first compressor all over again, there's no question at all that I'd save up for an API 2500. Well, MAYBE I'd consider buying a pair of Distressors... As for the FMR RNC, is nice in that it's really transparent. Not exactly worth it since it does nothing plugins can't do equally well these days. If you're going for hardware you probably want to do it for the mojo. You want it to bring something to the table. That's why I love the 1176 and SSL buss compressor clones I built. Both just drip with character. I use the 1176 in my recording chain for vocals (mic-preamp-compressor-converter-daw), and I keep the gSSL patched in on my 2buss and mix through it. Also have an Elysia Xpressor for mastering duties. It's a sexy, fairly transparent compressor, punchy as hell on drums, but overkill for your needs! I'd say stick with plugins for the time being. Make some money off your music, do some recording for friends, and eventually you'll be able to justify dropping a couple grand on a nice external compressor. THEN, after that you could consider an external eq like a really good Pultec style eq, but let's not go there...haha
